Phobias, Anger, Guilt, Punishment—How Do These Words Go Together?

Hello! Dr. Dabney is back in Virginia Beach with me! This is my coach, Joelle Brant. I’m Dr. Dabney—psychotherapist and coach—I do it all! Did you miss me? I did! Tyler’s honing in on your spotlight, Joelle… and I’m okay with that!

We’ve been talking about red flags lately. In general, we’re focused on busting myths to help people take that first step—whether it’s walking through the door or picking up the phone to call us. If you’re dealing with emotional or relationship issues, we’re here to help.

We’re hoping that by breaking things down and making them more relatable, you’ll feel empowered to reach out.

Our new location in Richmond already has two new patients coming in, which is so exciting! We’re thrilled to see people connecting with new doctors—it’s like having a baby! Richmond is my baby. Virginia Beach is another baby!

What did you think of the red flag talk?
It was a good one. I think it’s helpful for people to hear about red flags because sometimes they don’t even realize certain behaviors are problematic. You can get swept up in a red flag relationship without knowing it.

People often get so caught up in helping and fixing that they stay afloat without realizing they’re in a toxic dynamic. Hopefully, some folks stopped to reflect—or shared the episode with someone they suspect might be in a red flag relationship.

You can share this kind of information in a supportive way. I think people are afraid to give advice because they don’t want to sound judgmental. You don’t have to say, “I think you need to see a shrink.” There are softer, kinder ways to suggest someone might benefit from help. We’ll dive into that another day.

So what did we say we were going to talk about today?
Phobias! That’s right.

Phobias have come up all day for some reason, so we figured it’s a good topic for today.

I had a patient today who brought up a phobia—an airplane phobia.
Oh, and I have my own phobia… but I don’t want to get into it. Okay, fine—I’m scared of ants. Really scared. Not just any ants—the little ones. I’m not sure what kind of phobia that is. Insects? No, it’s not about their size.
It’s the swarm, isn’t it?
Maybe you’re onto something…

Phobias are symbolic representations of something else. Shockingly, they’re about emotion.
They’re a way to distract from a deeper feeling.

It’s funny—I was telling you about the airplane phobia, and you had a similar case over the phone. When someone has a phobia, they’re often trying to cover up a feeling. And when they try to explain the phobia, they end up distracting you from figuring out the real reason.

It becomes a vicious cycle. They’ll say, “It’s not this, not that,” and all of that becomes a smokescreen.
Interesting, right?

So I’ll say, “Okay, it’s not all those things—but let’s look at what was going on right when the phobia started.”

They’ll often say, “Nothing bad was happening,” which is another distraction. Whatever they’re hiding is painful.
And I’ll gently guide them back to that pain.

This particular patient didn’t have airplane phobia all the time—only in specific circumstances. That told me something had happened before he got on the plane. Something he couldn’t deal with at the time.

He kept saying, “It was a great day. I had a great day before getting on the plane.”
But something happened.

That’s something we’ll talk about next time—panic. People don’t always understand what panic is really about.
Phobia is panic in a specific place.
Panic attacks happen anywhere—but the emotional root is the same.

Once I helped him pinpoint what was going on, he remembered having breakfast with his wife. During that breakfast, he was talked into doing something with another family member that he didn’t want to do. He felt guilty. He had negative feelings toward that person but couldn’t say, “I don’t want to do that event with her next Saturday.”

So he got on the plane, and suddenly he had a panic attack—feeling like he was a bad person who deserved to die.

What’s the acronym we use?
AGAP: Anger → Guilt → Anxiety → Punishment.

You feel anger, then guilt because it’s someone you love. That guilt brings anxiety, and then you believe you deserve punishment.
But you’re only aware of the punishment part—because you can’t start with “I was angry.”

So Joelle… who are you angry at?
It’s not really the ants, is it?

Fine, we can use me as the example. Maybe next time I’ll have more insight into myself!

We all have these little fears. And when we look inside, we can start to figure them out.

Okay, that’s it for now.
We’ll see you soon—bye!